chiifu & RuinQueenofOblivion
we need to take some points into consideration
Worldbuilding, find some plotholes and fix. Don't make it too confusing.
<chiifu> hello!
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Hey
<chiifu> okay cool, so let's quickly summarize the concept just so we get a basis of what it exactly is
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Right
<RuinQueenofOblivion> It's a perfect replica of New York City on the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean
<chiifu> which is a manifestation of what it would look like in a parallel universe or something akin to that
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Right
<chiifu> that, already is anomalous enough, so we're gonna need to set up a story
<chiifu> do you have in mind what you plan to tell?
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Well, there will be investigation and exploration of the buildings looking for any information of course
<RuinQueenofOblivion> And I'm thinking there is… something alive in the city, not necessarily humans, but some sort of creatures that the Foundation keeps confined to one section of the city
<chiifu> oh interesting, that's quite cool
<chiifu> is this creature strong enough to force the Foundation to confine it to the city?
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Probably
<chiifu> okay, cool
<chiifu> so quick suggestion i have
<RuinQueenofOblivion> I also have already figured out how its kept hidden
<chiifu> maybe these 'creatures' could be partially (or the sole reason) why it's uninhabited to humans?
<chiifu> and that's great!
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Basically, a sensor net is kept up to keep an eye out for any submarines nearing the area and any maps of the area show a mountain with a cognitohazard put in any submarines that get too close that show the same
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Simple, but its deep enough where you won't see it from the surface so effective
<chiifu> yeah, it works
<chiifu> now that's done and out of the way, we've gotta set up an overarching story to this (other than the logs)
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Of course
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Also marine life isn't considered a problem as they avoid the area
<chiifu> okay, cool, so you've got any ideas in mind? i did put up that suggestion earlier about the creatures
<chiifu> perhaps they could be linked to the story somehow? ^
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Yeah, hmm…
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Maybe as part of the anomalous effects the buildings are completely dry on the inside
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Or at least some of them are
<chiifu> mkay, that's certainly interesting but how does that help the narrative?
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Well, it helps get information from the buildings' computers and stuff
<chiifu> definitely, but what's the narrative you want to tell
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Good question
<chiifu> i assume it's going to be heavily linked to the anomaly itself
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Heck, maybe this was because of another version of the Foundation attempting to contain whatever happened in New York
<chiifu> now that's interesting
<chiifu> that would turn the 'creatures' in new york into the big highlight of the article
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Yeah
<chiifu> while it's cool and all, you need to figure out how to get to this point
<chiifu> how to let the readers infer
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Yeah
<chiifu> "whoa, maybe these creatures were the reason for new york's demise"
<RuinQueenofOblivion> So the question is what are the creatures. Are they organic or are they maybe mechanical
<chiifu> if they're mechanical, you could tie it 'very deeply' into the church of the broken god
<RuinQueenofOblivion> True
<chiifu> maybe they decided to attack new york with the use of automatons or some shit
<chiifu> and the Foundation *actually* loses, which causes new york's demise
<chiifu> if they're organic, maybe you could use the sarkic cults, or some sort of creature that evolved throughout the times; hidden from civilization, and now attacking new york
<RuinQueenofOblivion> I like the mechanical idea
<chiifu> me too
<chiifu> i like the idea of the Church of the Broken God going ham
<chiifu> now, if we're settling on that, you need to figure out how you're going to have the readers infer this ending
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Right
<chiifu> is the anomaly itself the future? a parallel dimension? maybe that could help
<chiifu> establish what it 'is' first, then build off of that
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Yeah
<chiifu> we've got the base ideas of what it is, we just don't know where it originated from
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Yeah, hmm…
<chiifu> you need to make sure it also supports the idea that the Church of the Broken God is responsible
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Yeah
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Also needs an MTF
<chiifu> MTF Gamma-6 ("Deep Feeders")
<chiifu> they handle deep sea investigation and tracking of anomalies
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Could work yeah, though I also feel like it should have one on hand at all times in case XXXX-A (creatures) instances try to escape, hmm…
<chiifu> im pretty sure there's another one let me find it
<chiifu> you could have Lambda-5 ("White Rabbits")
<chiifu> they handle spacetime, reality warping, etc. anomalies
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Could work, yeah
<chiifu> so, what about the origins
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Hmm…
<chiifu> got anything in mind?
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Not sure yet
<chiifu> i'll opt out a suggestion
<chiifu> maybe the anomaly was from the future or something, and is the result of a mass attack by the Church of the Broken God. the Foundation finds out and they investigate the Church of the Broken God and realize that they've been amassing several copies of the same creature?
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Right, and its currently contained to New York
<RuinQueenofOblivion> But its going to spread
<chiifu> yes
<chiifu> how's that sound?
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Yeah, that would work
<RuinQueenofOblivion> They still try to get as many people out as they can
<chiifu> out of New York? like the regular one?
<RuinQueenofOblivion> The one that wound up there, but yeah, probably can only get so many people out if any
<chiifu> so it'd be a near future-event thing, which causes the Foundation to evacuate modern New York city
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Yeah, hmm…
<RuinQueenofOblivion> I think we should leave the year ambiguous
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Maybe put the date as corrupted data
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Leave it ambiguous as to whether it will happen in the future or at all
<chiifu> okay, interesting. yeah, but if the year's unknown i don't think the Foundation would do a go-ahead and evacuate them instantly
<chiifu> maybe they'll do a background check first
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Oh I mean of course not
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Okay I need to clarify that
<RuinQueenofOblivion> The Foundation of the future/alternate timeline tried to evacuate the city before making it vanish
<chiifu> yeah, and they failed
<chiifu> how would the Foundation come to the conclusion that it's from the future/alternate timeline
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Well that's where the exploration logs come from
<RuinQueenofOblivion> *in
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Computer files and stuff as well
<chiifu> okay, so the foundation explores the place
<chiifu> and what to do they find?
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Good question
<chiifu> i think it'd be really interesting
<chiifu> if there was a previous iteration from the future timeline
<chiifu> labelling the events of what had happened
<chiifu> or, have the readers think the anomaly is New York (which it still is)
*** RuinQueenofOblivion: No such nick/channel
<chiifu> welcome back
<RuinQueenofOblivion> SOrry, what did you say last?
<chiifu> okay, so as i was saying
<chiifu> i think it'd be really cool if there was an iteration of the file from the future timeline, which labels the events of what happens in the future
<chiifu> or, you could have the readers think the main anomaly is New York
<chiifu> but then make a reveal, and emphasize on the creatures, which are the main showstopper, the core of the anomaly
<RuinQueenofOblivion> That's an interesting idea
<chiifu> maybe each creature is anomalous in itself because… the Church of the Broken God
<chiifu> like, the Foundation explores, gets a hold of a future/alternate timeline file, and have it be played in the article itself
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Well, this is a good start, I'm gonna work on some other stuff at the moment, but this is a good start
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Sure
<RuinQueenofOblivion> I labeled the entire City Foundation Area-04
<RuinQueenofOblivion> "Foundation facilities designated as Areas are clandestine facilities, meaning that civilians are not aware of their existence at all. Such facilities are often built far away from civilian populations and may contain highly dangerous anomalies; the vast majority of Areas have extreme fail-safe measures such as on-site nuclear warheads."
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Figure it made sense for a location that's by it's nature remote
<chiifu> that's true
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Basically, the idea is that at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean, there is a perfect replica of New York City
<RuinQueenofOblivion> That's fine
<spikebrennan> we already have an unlondon
<RuinQueenofOblivion> I know Unlondon, please let me explain the idea
<spikebrennan> proceed
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Its not a replica in the same sense Unlondon is
<RuinQueenofOblivion> The idea is that it came from either the future or an alternate timeline where a major anomalous event happened in New York City involving the Church of the Broken God. The Foundation failed to contain it and it was threatening to spread out beyond the city
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Its not really a replica, its the same city
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Does that make more sense?
<spikebrennan> how did it get there and why
<RuinQueenofOblivion> The Foundation in a last ditch effort to contain the aforementioned major anomalous event basically removed it from their version of reality, and it wound up here
<TRutherford> Sounds like 1730
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Yeah, probably a bit like 1730 only a full city instead of a site, and on the bottom of the ocean
<spikebrennan> does it really matter what the anomalous event is? is it basically an inert artifact at the bottom of the ocean, anomalous simply by virtue of being there?
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Well, no, its still active, just stuck in programming loops
<chiifu> spikebrennan: the anomalous event plays a major role in this, i believe
<spikebrennan> with drowned people and everything? ir is it under some sort of dome?
<chiifu> the anomalous city is only part of the entire thing
<RuinQueenofOblivion> The narrative is about figuring out what happened to the city as well as keeping the cause of the anomalous event from getting out of one sector
<chiifu> what makes it entirely anomalous is the fact that there are other anomalous creatures located within it, likely due to the Church of the Broken God. (they are within the city)
<spikebrennan> a thing as big as a city being under the ocean would raise a lot of questions that might undesirably stretch credulity because it provokes questions that you probably won't want to answer in your write-up. for example, cities are full of things that float, so once the city appears you would expect a lot of trash to
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Hmm, that's a fair point, we're going to have to address that
<chiifu> oh yea, true
<spikebrennan> end up bobbing to the surface of the ocean. but i assume that's not what your story is about, so either you'd have to explain why that doesn't happen, or (suggestion here) maybe not have it be a whole city
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Actually, that could explain how the Foundation found it
<spikebrennan> if your idea raises too many loose threads then you end up with a worldbuilding exercise rather than an actual story that's about something. and worldbuilding - especially in a short form fiction site like this - is really not where you want to spend your time.
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Well, its just a basic idea at this point
<RuinQueenofOblivion> So it can be expanded on or improved
<spikebrennan> okay, so tell me more about the story part. you have a mysterious artifact (nature not yet defined) that ends up on the bottom of the ocean. what's the actual story. is the story about how it got there, or about what happens to the discoverers, or what?
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Well admittedly we're still working on all of the details.
<spikebrennan> general advice i sometimes give to authors is to be careful not to be too ambitious with a short-form work. if you try to pack too much into a concept, you end up not being able to compelling execute on all parts. better to pick a less complex idea and do it well.
<RuinQueenofOblivion> Eh, lets see if this can work out first, it doesn't hurt to at least try before dropping it
<RuinQueenofOblivion> You make some good points and we'll take them into consideration
<red3> Well, aside from the fact that your narrative is going to be clashing with other popular articles that used that time-travel multiple Foundations idea like SCP-4861, the biggest thing that jumps out to me is both the corpses and the debris. New York is one of the most populated cities in America, so even something like 20% of its population drowning and floating to the surface is going to be an absolute metric ton of
<red3> bodies. Same with the debris. I bet a lot of the readers are also going to imagine that some part of the Broken God or some other anomalies are going to be tagging along for the ride, so there should be some mention of them in there.
<chiifu> oh yeah, there will be church of the broken god's means of attacking brought along with it
<chiifu> hm, so it's mostly just the fact that it's gonna clash with some other article
<chiifu> articles*
<chiifu> and the debris, which is gonna be a whole lot of it floating to the surface
<red3> Besides those, I don't see any other problems with this besides the usual problems that time travel brings. Will Mekhane meet with this universe's version of Mekhane? Will there be two Mekhanes? Joking, of course, but I do think that there's a lot of potential for some mystery here. Leading off with just the discovery of a ton of fucking bodies in the Atlantic along with a bunch of powerful Broken God stuff and other
<red3> anomalies. Reel the reader in with partial reveals of how it resembles New York that's been destroyed, Foundation efforts, and remnants of the Church of the Broken God. And then hit 'em with the right hook of the terminal which will lead the reader straight to the explanation — although, it could also be mysterious as well in order to make the reader piece together the pieces on their own.
<chiifu> gotcha, we do plan of having a bit of mystery, since it'll bring up a lot of questions for the reader
<chiifu> regarding mekhane and stuff like that, we're planning to delve a bit deeper into it. while two mekhane's are going to be a big problem to deal with in some areas, i think that it should be fine given that we approach it right
<red3> Alright, I think the idea's great. A lot of potential. The biggest potential problem I see is going to be the execution of the terminal, since it's going to be really easy to make that just a complete info dump which will kill any mystery left in the reader and leave them bored and uninterested. That's going to need a lot of work in order to succeed.
<chiifu> of course, yeah, the terminal is going to be a massive part of the plot here and we don't want to completely ruin it. so we'll think about it while we make the rough draft
<chiifu> anyways, i appreciate you taking your time to look over the idea. it was real helpful
<MM> "Perfect reproduction of New York" wouldnt prolong time under water drastically change the way its shaped. How old is it?
<chiifu> not too old, in the narrative we plan it's very recent
<chiifu> though, we plan to tweak that sentence to better fit what we have in mind
<MM> The automatons…it says they very in size,but this does not give a description of what they look like.
<TheSandwichMan> "detect any submarines." - this line right here feels oddly specific
<TheSandwichMan> "Containment procedures relating to marine life are not needed. Any subjects designated SCP-XXXX-A are to be contained within Sector 23-Alpha, with any attempts of SCP-XXXX-A leaving the city be met with lethal force. " This could be two sentences
<TheSandwichMan> "leaving the city be met" this should also be "to be met"
<TheSandwichMan> " All operations within SCP-XXXX are controlled and monitored through Thetis-301" You might explain what Thetis-301 is after this line. It's details are important for containment.
<chiifu> it's detailed in the description, should it be earlier?
<chiifu> or i could put it in a footnote
<TheSandwichMan> That's my thought. Like I said it's important for containment, so it should be in the containment section
<chiifu> understandable
<TheSandwichMan> "All underground tunnels leaving from Sector 23-Alpha have been cut off in order to maintain containment." This is a little vague. You might describe how they are cut off.
<TheSandwichMan> " appears to be a perfect reproduction of New York City, albeit partially destroyed" Give a date of what New York it represents.
<chiifu> ah, it's from the future so how would i go about that?
<TheSandwichMan> Well then it's not a perfect recreation, it's an advance model of New York
<chiifu> just a few years in the future though
<chiifu> like 1-3 years or something
<chiifu> it's not super advanced at all
<TheSandwichMan> Then modern day New York. Maybe they can find a date somewhere in the city to tell them when it is from?
<chiifu> hm, alright
<TheSandwichMan> Either way, just saying New York is too vague
<chiifu> noted
<TheSandwichMan> Otherwise it looks pretty good. You might flesh out the A instance as they're a little bland. But that's about all I can find at 4 am
o_o
Updates
chiifu: changed the way New York city looks, due to narrative issues. it'd probably be a bit destroyed because the church of the broken god attacked them. not completely destroyed, just partially (if you get what i mean). also went a bit more in-depth on how the automatons could look.
chiifu: also added a discovery section, feel free to add more to it.
chiifu: added a terminal-like thingy. exploration log still needs to be added tho.
Per 
