PrLosash-Seminars sandbox
Seminar Notes Title1
Introduction
- list down general overview provided by presenter
Part 1
- Relevant details (general ideas)
- secondary detail (occasional anecdotes, explanations)
- tertiary detail (not necessary, as these are generally very specific examples that rarely need to be listed, except in the case of niche topics)
- secondary detail (occasional anecdotes, explanations)
- Detail
- Detail
- etc
Part 2 - Part 2 Title
- etc
Part n - Conclusion
- Basically summarize everything here; in particular, the main ideas of the seminar.
- Maybe list theses here? Unnecessary if you can convey the proper meaning through fewer words
- Give presenter's closing thoughts
Introduction
- Scary monsters are the backbone of the site and a great introduction to the wiki and its contents. However, most authors writing them focus too much on the monsters themselves and not the terror they wreck.
- That is why the goal of today's seminar is to discuss ways to construct a compelling murder-monster story.
- Lessons of the seminar could be applied to living, dead, and undead things that kill and/or eat people.
- There are five basic principles to writing a scary monster.
- First three principles are enough and necessary for creating a successful article. Almost all deleted monster stories violate some of them.
Principle I. Death does not carry an article by itself
- Death is a punchline from which to build up a character or a monster. It is a way to relieve tension that is built up before.
- Horror films work by building up tension, leading to the emotional catharsis - death. But death doesn't work if there is no tension to relieve.
- Death can be interesting not because it happened, but because of how it happened.
- Even in slasher films it is not the deaths that are interesting, but the different inventive, over-the-top ways people are killed.
- There are well-known articles with different methods of killing people - SCP-096, SCP-106, SCP-173.
- Story in SCP-096 takes place after a reader learns that it kills and [DATA EXPUNGES] people. The death itself is not interesting, but what is interesting and scary is the length 096 is willing to go for a kill.
Principle II. The scariest fear is the fear of the unknown
- People misunderstand SCP format in characterizing monsters - Dissecting a monster kills the horror.
- Which is why common praise for Parawatch is not breaking suspension of disbelief and focusing on the ways monster affecting people, not describing it.
- Which is why popular monsters (for instance, vampires) are never dissected - they are only described in the relation with interacting with them. And even then, some established rules are often broken in various stories.
- Which is also why redactions are such an important stylistic tool on the wiki.
- You must always know what you are redacting and why. Otherwise the redaction would be weak and would look like a lazy excuse rather than a writing tool.
- Subverting trope and breaking rules is a great way to add tension and fear - it throws the reader off, makes the story less predictable.
- When creating a monster come up with 3-4 implicit behaviour rules for it. Let the reader figure them out and then break them.
- SCP-1155 does that. Violation of implicit rules of the monster causes it to react. It is stopped while killing a person - the monster chooses a new location for itself, one that is not usual for it. Foundation tries to cover the monster - it teleports to a playground forcing Foundation to compromise.
- When creating a monster come up with 3-4 implicit behaviour rules for it. Let the reader figure them out and then break them.
Principle III. A monster is only as scary as you care about its victims
- A monster becomes scarier as its victims become more relatable. There are three methods to make the reader care for people in danger.
- Making the kids the victim. People automatically empathize with kids.
- Example - SCP-4310 - basically a big bug that eats people. It becomes scaries because it eats children luring them into its mouth.
- Characterizing the victims. Basically giving the victim an identity through interviews, logs, etc.
- Example - SCP-096. There are several such characters in that story - Dr Dan, the D-class in the submarine, or any of the surviving MTF members.
- Making the reader imagine themselves becoming the reader.
- Achieved through creating an image of the monster with providing sensory details. If a reader can draw a detailed mental image of a monster, they'll inevitably draw one of the monster eating them.
- Example - SCP-106. The article describes the monster, its looks, how it hunts, how it hurts and kills people.
- Making the kids the victim. People automatically empathize with kids.
Principle IV. Imitation is the scariest form of flattery
- There are a lot of souces of inspiration for scary monsters in nature, literature, folklore.
- Nature has three billion years headstart in developing scary ways to kill stuff. Do not reinvent the wheel, remix it.
- For examle, there's a species of fungus that parasitizes insects by mind-controlling them to climb up grass and then explodes out of them to reproduce. It's a real-life Alien except it only attacks bugs. Now what if it attacked people?
- SCP-4975 is a scary monster that invents its own German nursery rhyme to up the horror by implying that this thing has haunted the country for centuries.
- Nature has three billion years headstart in developing scary ways to kill stuff. Do not reinvent the wheel, remix it.
Principle V. When you write about a scary monster you’re still writing a story
- When wtiring a scary monster, you still have to create a story, create tension, atmosphere, give the monster depth.
- You cannot get away with just describing the monster and thinking it is scary.
- The part of the story when a monster eats people should feel EARNED.
Conclusion
- Scary monsters are a great way to get introduced to the site and they're an even better way to acclimate yourself to the unique challenges and constraints posed by the SCP format.
- Murder monsters still make viable SCP articles, one just needs to spend some time characterizing them.
- Death is not a goal, it is a way of relieving built-up tension.
- Do not tell the reader everything about your monster. Only provide the minimal number of 'rules' that could be broken for added tension.
- Make the reader care about the victims.
- Folklore, literature and nature are great sources of inspiration.
- Writing a scary monster is still writing a story.
| [22:05:42] | &ARD | So! Let's get down to brass tacks, folks |
|---|---|---|
| [22:05:49] | ViviSection8 | Lets do it |
| [22:05:56] | CalibriBold | I'm nervous. |
| [22:06:02] | DrTARS_notabot | Same |
| [22:06:03] | &ARD | Real quick poll - give me the first SCP number that comes to mind |
| [22:06:05] | &ARD | GO |
| [22:06:05] | ~taylor_iOStkin | .record start |
| [22:06:05] | +TARS | Starting recording messages in #workshop |
| [22:06:09] | %Raddaghost | 3171 |
| [22:06:12] | DrTARS_notabot | 2317 |
| [22:06:15] | %naepicfael | 3125 |
| [22:06:15] | &TheFrightyMcB | 3844 |
| [22:06:17] | CalibriBold | 4456 |
| [22:06:18] | Dyslexion | 076 |
| [22:06:20] | %PrLosash | 4625 |
| [22:06:20] | ~taylor_iOStkin | 3864 |
| [22:06:21] | LittleFieryOne | 178 |
| [22:06:22] | ViviSection8 | 3999 |
| [22:06:23] | — | Scourge (~ten.tsewq.pslc.BB58F799-CRInys|criigc#ten.tsewq.pslc.BB58F799-CRInys|criigc) has joined #workshop |
| [22:06:23] | LittleFieryOne | I"m a normie |
| [22:06:24] | BlueJones | 079 |
| [22:06:31] | %DrSpookimoto | 3199 |
| [22:06:32] | Gee0666 | 3794 |
| [22:06:38] | CryptkeeperFlops | 4246 |
| [22:06:59] | Simartar | 4444 |
| [22:07:11] | VincentVanGone | 1000 |
| [22:07:24] | &ARD | I'm impressed. This is a surprisingly diverse crop of articles |
| [22:07:51] | &ARD | When you browse the subreddit, what SCPs crop up most often |
| [22:08:02] | CalibriBold | penut |
| [22:08:02] | LittleFieryOne | 178 |
| [22:08:05] | Gee0666 | pp |
| [22:08:06] | Simartar | 049 |
| [22:08:09] | DrTARS_notabot | 96 |
| [22:08:09] | Gee0666 | 682 |
| [22:08:11] | Dyslexion | 076 and the doctor |
| [22:08:15] | VincentVanGone | 999 |
| [22:08:18] | %PrLosash | series I monsters |
| [22:08:19] | Gee0666 | 2521 |
| [22:08:22] | CalibriBold | 1471 |
| [22:08:23] | ViviSection8 | 173 682 |
| [22:08:23] | BlueJones | 4966 |
| [22:08:25] | CryptkeeperFlops | 173, 096, 682, 049, 035 |
| [22:08:30] | &ARD | Right |
| [22:08:30] | Gee0666 | spook monster #3 |
| [22:08:32] | CalibriBold | 001 |
| [22:08:40] | Gee0666 | CalibriBold: only two though |
| [22:08:45] | &ARD | How many of those spook monsters feature the trait of killing and/or eating lots of people? |
| [22:08:48] | Gee0666 | day breaks and gate guardian |
| [22:08:52] | CryptkeeperFlops | All of them |
| [22:08:55] | Gee0666 | ARD: most |
| [22:08:55] | CalibriBold | Yeah, true. |
| [22:08:58] | Dyslexion | Most of them yeah |
| [22:09:01] | ViviSection8 | A good majority |
| [22:09:03] | DrTARS_notabot | most, if not all |
| [22:09:06] | LittleFieryOne | Too many |
| [22:09:15] | CalibriBold | Does MalO kill people? I don't remember. |
| [22:09:25] | Dyslexion | It's easy to make memes about murder ig |
| [22:09:35] | — | Tiamaiko (~ten.tsacmoc.ap.1dsh.C61D13C-CRInys|criigc#ten.tsacmoc.ap.1dsh.C61D13C-CRInys|criigc) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| [22:09:44] | &ARD | Bingo. Scary monsters are the backbone of the site and serve as a fantastic introduction to the wiki and its content. |
| [22:09:45] | &TheFrightyMcB | CalibriBold: it doesn't but the protagonist's sister commits suicide |
| [22:09:47] | &ARD | Unfortunately, most authors who try to write scary monsters of their own focus too much on the monsters and not enough on the terror they wreak. |
| [22:10:07] | &ARD | That might sound a little bit confusing. If it does, don't worry - that's what this seminar is all about. |
| [22:10:50] | &ARD | Here's a little bit about myself — I go by A Random Day on the wiki. At last count I had 60-something articles on the site, at least a tenth of which fall under the category of "monsters that kill and/or eat you": SCP-3000, SCP-3470, SCP-2490, SCP-4670, SCP-4310, SCP-3640 |
| [22:11:16] | &ARD | Some of you may have attended my last seminar on Flash Fiction. I mentioned monster-manual entries there as well and even alluded to it being a topic for another seminar. This is that seminar. |
| [22:11:37] | &ARD | I'm not talking about actual literary theory — I'm an engineer by trade. I solve practical problems. |
| [22:11:45] | &ARD | I'm going to be talking about ways to construct a compelling murder monster story, based on what I've learned and what I've seen in the last five years. |
| [22:11:54] | &ARD | Along the way, you'll each construct an outline for your own scary monster article and hopefully have something worth writing by the end of the seminar. |
| [22:12:01] | — | Cerastes (moc.duolccri.notlrahc.D900C454-CRInys|897393diu#moc.duolccri.notlrahc.D900C454-CRInys|897393diu) has joined #workshop |
| [22:12:12] | &ARD | Any questions before we move forward? |
| [22:12:40] | Dyslexion | While this cover humans with similar capabilities |
| [22:12:50] | CalibriBold | ^ |
| [22:13:18] | &ARD | Pretty much everything I touch on in this seminar can apply to murderous people as well. As an example, SCP-4670 is about a serial killer who turns people into pigs and then barbecues them. |
| [22:13:38] | LittleFieryOne | Would monsters include objects that do harmful things as well? And was that TF2 reference intentional? |
| [22:14:57] | — | dread3 (~ten.xoc.hp.hp.9C0493CA-CRInys|criigc#ten.xoc.hp.hp.9C0493CA-CRInys|criigc) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| [22:15:05] | &ARD | 1. Sure. There's not a really appreciable difference, when it comes down to it, between writing so-called monster manual entries and item manual entries. For those of you unfamiliar with Dungeons & Dragons, that means you can apply the lessons in the seminar to living, dead, and undead things that kill and/or eat people. |
| [22:15:14] | &ARD | 2. Yes. Patrician taste. |
| [22:15:20] | DrTARS_notabot | No questions from me |
| [22:15:30] | BlueJones | Will we cover just the general scary stuff or would we be covering more special/specific parts of what makes a monster? |
| [22:16:06] | &ARD | The latter. General scary stuff is way too broad to pin down in this seminar. SCP-3001 is widely considered to be one of the scariest articles on the site but nobody even dies in it. |
| [22:16:25] | &ARD | This seminar is specifically geared towards the SCP subgenre of scary monsters |
| [22:16:53] | Dyslexion | what's 3001 again? |
| [22:17:00] | Gee0666 | Red reality |
| [22:17:02] | &ARD | Red Something something |
| [22:17:07] | Dyslexion | ohhh |
| [22:17:47] | LittleFieryOne | I will have to read that after this |
| [22:17:52] | DrTARS_notabot | Same |
| [22:17:55] | &ARD | If there are no other questions, let's move on |
| [22:18:28] | — | RockGhostBoneEyes (moc.duolccri.nevahenots.4A0594BF-CRInys|452603diu#moc.duolccri.nevahenots.4A0594BF-CRInys|452603diu) has joined #workshop |
| [22:18:31] | &ARD | In my experience, there are five basic principles that you should keep in mind when writing a scary monster. I'll elaborate on these further shortly, but let's just start by listing them. |
| [22:18:50] | &ARD | First, and most important — death cannot carry an article by itself. |
| [22:19:04] | &ARD | Second, the scariest fear is fear of the unknown. |
| [22:19:26] | &ARD | Third, a monster is only as scary as you care about its victims. |
| [22:19:45] | &ARD | Fourth, imitation is the scariest form of flattery. |
| [22:20:04] | &ARD | Fifth, when you write about a scary monster you're still writing a story. |
| [22:20:25] | — | Slashington (moc.duolccri.egasrehtah.BFEE4527-CRInys|362453diu#moc.duolccri.egasrehtah.BFEE4527-CRInys|362453diu) has joined #workshop |
| [22:20:25] | ** | Mode #workshop +h Slashington by ChanServ |
| [22:20:58] | &ARD | In virtually every case of a failed or deleted article about a scary monster I've ever seen, one of the first three principles has been violated. |
| [22:21:28] | &ARD | The fourth principle is more of a proverb about where to draw inspiration from, but it's a very reliable one. |
| [22:21:40] | — | Skelesky (moc.duolccri.egasrehtah.2BF964BA-CRInys|969493diu#moc.duolccri.egasrehtah.2BF964BA-CRInys|969493diu) has joined #workshop |
| [22:21:40] | &ARD | And the fifth principle is more or less a reminder of what it means to write an SCP article. |
| [22:21:45] | &ARD | Now let's go over each point in turn. |
| [22:21:59] | &ARD | Actually, tell you what |
| [22:22:23] | &ARD | Never mind, haha — let's keep going. let's go over each point in turn. |
| [22:22:41] | &ARD | Alright, first point — death cannot carry an article by itself. |
| [22:22:46] | &ARD | This is THE cardinal sin that most newbie articles commit, writing a story about a monster that begins and ends with "it kills people in gruesome ways". |
| [22:22:50] | &ARD | Death works as a punchline or as a starting point from which you can expound upon a character or a monster. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a monster that kills people, but reading about someone's horrible death does not, in and of itself, a satisfying reading experience make. |
| [22:23:08] | — | Laneous (moc.duolccri.notlrahc.1A38A9FE-CRInys|662453diu#moc.duolccri.notlrahc.1A38A9FE-CRInys|662453diu) has joined #workshop |
| [22:23:15] | &ARD | Horror films work by building up tension until someone dies. Death releases that tension and entertains through its violent catharsis, but it doesn't work unless that tension is built up first. |
| [22:23:37] | &ARD | Even a slasher film — whose entire premise is people being killed horribly — isn't interesting because people die. It's interesting because they die in creative, hilarious, and over-the-top ways that are as funny as they are violent. Simply dying isn't good enough. |
| [22:24:01] | &ARD | You have to realize that the average reader on this site will have already read articles like SCP-106 and SCP-096 and SCP-173, all of which already kill people in gruesome ways. People dying is their absolute baseline. |
| [22:25:56] | &ARD | Let's look at scp-096 as an example |
| [22:26:06] | &ARD | http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-096 |
| [22:26:58] | &ARD | Something I like to note about 096 is that the bulk of its story actually takes place after we learn that it kills and [DATA EXPUNGES] people |
| [22:27:58] | &ARD | There's an interview log where we hear from someone who actually encountered the monster. There's even a whole plot about Dr. Dan conspiring to get 096 neutralized by engineering a scenario in which it kills even more people. |
| [22:28:52] | &ARD | SCP-096 murdering anyone who looks at a picture of it is simply the jumping-off point for a series of increasingly horrible and desperate logs. |
| [22:29:36] | &ARD | It's not that 096 kills people that inspires attention, it's the lengths to which it goes. It's about 096 being able to travel to the bottom of the ocean or survive a gunship attack while it kills people. |
| [22:30:40] | &ARD | So that's the first key point to understand — death cannot carry an article by itself. Death works only as a punchline or as a starting point from which you can expound upon a character or a monster. |
| [22:30:57] | &ARD | It can be your foundation or your spire, but it can't be your building. |
| [22:31:08] | &ARD | Any questions before we move on? |
| [22:31:25] | Skelesky | well |
| [22:31:44] | Skelesky | what about articles who's point is the uniqueness of death? |
| [22:31:57] | &ARD | Can you give me an example? |
| [22:32:01] | Skelesky | when day breaks |
| [22:32:11] | LittleFieryOne | A lot of earlier scips had a gimmick for killing people (i.e when you look at it, when you don't look at it, when you hear it, etc). Would you say the site's moved on from those sort of articles, or is there still room to do something interesting in your opinion? |
| [22:32:13] | CalibriBold | Did the original SCP-096 article have the interview? |
| [22:32:49] | &ARD | Skelesky: interesting that you say WDB, when one of the more gruesome aspects of the piece is that everything caught in the sun's light stays alive while they are transmogrified |
| [22:33:06] | &ARD | as far as I'm aware, the only person who dies in that tale is researcher logan, who kills herself deep underground |
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| [22:33:10] | Skelesky | but it's a form of death |
| [22:33:20] | Skelesky | they aren't themselves anymore |
| [22:33:35] | Skelesky | i take it as it's almost like their consciousness is gone |
| [22:33:57] | Skelesky | hmm lemme think of a better example |
| [22:34:03] | Dyslexion | I personally think that that form of "Death" is more interesting |
| [22:34:45] | &ARD | That's arguably a question of semantics, but you also have to consider everything surrounding the sunlight. WDB also features a unique framing, first-person perspective, a subplot about lost love, and even a series of poems built around the basic concept of "the sun turns people into tang" |
| [22:35:58] | Dyslexion | How about 610? |
| [22:35:59] | &ARD | LittleFieryOne: there's absolutely room to do interesting stuff! Tooting my own horn here, SCP-4310 is a very short article about a species of giant centipede that kills and eats children. What makes it successful is how it kills them — it pretends to be a wizard calling them on a chosen one's quest when actually it's luring them into its stomach to eat them |
| [22:36:16] | Dyslexion | They 'die' but how they die is uniqueish |
| [22:36:52] | RockGhostBoneEyes | WDB is probably more comparable to a zombie film in its framing. |
| [22:37:00] | DrTARS_notabot | So how it kills can be atributed to the SCP being scary |
| [22:37:07] | &ARD | CalibriBold: I honestly couldn't tell you. As far as I'm aware the interview log was there since the start |
| [22:37:41] | RockGhostBoneEyes | DrTARS_notabot: Not so much scary, but rather and aspect to hook the reader or surprise them |
| [22:37:46] | DrTARS_notabot | AlsoWDB kinda flips the whole light=safe dark=death trope on its head |
| [22:37:50] | RockGhostBoneEyes | an aspect* |
| [22:37:50] | &ARD | Dyslexion: SCP-610 also contains a series of compelling exploration logs to keep the reader invested |
| [22:38:06] | — | DrWells (~tp.obacten.epc.58B4E459-CRInys|criigc#tp.obacten.epc.58B4E459-CRInys|criigc) has joined #workshop |
| [22:39:14] | &ARD | Any more questions? |
| [22:39:18] | Skelesky | i can't remember the name |
| [22:39:23] | Dyslexion | nope |
| [22:39:25] | Skelesky | but the santa one |
| [22:39:27] | Skelesky | fuck i forgot it |
| [22:39:28] | LittleFieryOne | I'm good |
| [22:39:40] | Dyslexion | the Yule man? |
| [22:39:44] | DrTARS_notabot | Nada |
| [22:39:47] | Skelesky | but it uses gruesomeness and murder to create a horror feeling |
| [22:39:48] | CalibriBold | 4666 |
| [22:39:55] | Skelesky | Dyslexion: yeah that one |
| [22:40:20] | %Raddaghost | But with that one I feel the horror comes more from the familiarity |
| [22:40:24] | &ARD | Absolutely! 4666 is a personal favorite of mine. But murdering people isn't the only thing it does |
| [22:40:25] | Dyslexion | ^ |
| [22:40:31] | %Raddaghost | the popular association with what Santa is supposed to be |
| [22:40:31] | CalibriBold | Skelesky: I think part of it is it's also taking the idea of Santa Claus and making into something that we don't expect. |
| [22:40:40] | &ARD | It's actually a twist on Krampus |
| [22:40:54] | Dyslexion | Which is already horrifying |
| [22:41:07] | &ARD | In addition to murdering families, 4666 kidnaps children to use as slave labor and literal materiel for toys. Sometimes it doesn't even murder people — sometimes it leaves gifts made of flesh and bone |
| [22:41:19] | Dyslexion | I think the limit on its area of activity is also interesting |
| [22:41:31] | Skelesky | i see your point |
| [22:41:32] | DrTARS_notabot | Sounds like the factory 001 proposal |
| [22:42:11] | Skelesky | wait wait wait |
| [22:42:12] | Skelesky | nvm |
| [22:42:12] | &ARD | Skelesky: exactly. At first you think there's a lot of skips that get away with only murdering people, but then when you dig a little deeper you understand how they craft a pearl around that grain of sand |
| [22:42:32] | &ARD | Let's keep going then |
| [22:42:33] | Skelesky | yeah i was about to mention 002 then i realized that it's the same as 4666 |
| [22:42:34] | &ARD | SO! |
| [22:42:52] | &ARD | Second point that you should keep in mind when writing a scary monster: |
| [22:42:54] | &ARD | the scariest fear is fear of the unknown. |
| [22:43:02] | &ARD | Who here has heard of and/or likes the recent Group of Interest Parawatch? |
| [22:43:15] | LittleFieryOne | Me |
| [22:43:19] | DrTARS_notabot | I |
| [22:43:23] | LittleFieryOne | ONly heard of them |
| [22:43:24] | CalibriBold | Parawatch yees. |
| [22:43:26] | %PrLosash | heard of |
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| [22:43:48] | Skelesky | "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown." -H.P. Lovecraft |
| [22:43:48] | Simartar | Heard of, haven't read much |
| [22:43:48] | BlueJones | Writing one out |
| [22:43:52] | Dyslexion | yes |
| [22:43:57] | Skelesky | i've heard the name |
| [22:43:58] | ViviSection8 | I keep hearing about it but don’t know what it is |
| [22:43:58] | &ARD | Tell me — what do you like about parawatch |
| [22:44:15] | CalibriBold | They're basically the "scp reel?" of the SCP universe. |
| [22:44:17] | BlueJones | That it's pretty much us but in SCP-verse |
| [22:44:29] | Cerastes | Basically outsiders to the anomalous |
| [22:44:59] | &ARD | A common point of praise I've observed among Parawatch articles is that they don't break the reader's suspension of disbelief and hearken back to the site's early days and its roots in creepypasta. Does that track for you? |
| [22:45:23] | RockGhostBoneEyes | That checks out. |
| [22:45:47] | Cerastes | well, sometimes it feels like it stretches it a bit for the purpose of horror, but i get what the purpose behind it is |
| [22:46:07] | Dyslexion | ^ |
| [22:46:08] | &ARD | Right. Parawatch articles eschew explaining how the monster works — they jump right to how spooky the monster is and how it affected their protagonists. |
| [22:46:31] | &ARD | Most people misunderstand the role of the SCP format in characterizing monsters. They believe that to make a monster work, they have to present a face-value scientific dissection of what the monster is that ends with it killing people. But just like a frog or a joke, dissecting the horror kills it. |
| [22:47:09] | &ARD | This is at the core of what makes [REDACTED] and [DATA EXPUNGED] such quintessential stylistic tools on the site. It's much more thrilling for the reader to imagine what isn't being said. |
| [22:47:18] | ViviSection8 | Nice analogy. Made me chuckle. |
| [22:47:21] | &ARD | There is, of course, the caveat that you yourself should know what you're redacting and why you're doing so at that point — trust me, if you throw down a [REDACTED] because you can't think of anything better to put there, the reader will know, and they will scoff. |
| [22:48:05] | &ARD | Let's consider three monsters from folklore and popular culture: the vampire, the onryo, and Pennywise. |
| [22:48:17] | &ARD | The vampire, of course, is that quintessential caped bloodsucker |
| [22:48:35] | &ARD | The onryo is a type of vengeful ghost that features prominently in Japanese urban legends and ghost stories |
| [22:49:10] | &ARD | Pennywise is the antagonist of IT — a beast manifesting as a clown that either terrifies or arouses people depending on which Tumblr blog you visit |
| [22:49:32] | RockGhostBoneEyes | Christ |
| [22:49:36] | Cerastes | hah |
| [22:49:40] | LittleFieryOne | Now I know where not to look for Pennywise |
| [22:49:41] | DrTARS_notabot | Welp |
| [22:49:43] | ViviSection8 | lmao |
| [22:49:51] | Skelesky | lmao |
| [22:50:00] | CalibriBold | mloa |
| [22:50:14] | BlueJones | how'd you find my tumbler posts - i mean lmao |
| [22:50:42] | &ARD | But here's the thing — nobody has ever taken blood samples from a vampire. Nobody has ever put an onryo under a microscope. And nobody has ever dissected Pennywise |
| [22:50:53] | &ARD | IT’s physiology is only explained to the extent that it breeds. Folklore tells us only three things about onryo—the rules for avoiding them, outwitting them, and creating them. With vampires, we get the knowledge for defeating them—but that is easily and often subverted in fiction by being rendered useless in the reality of the fiction. |
| [22:51:19] | &ARD | Your reader only knows as much about the monster as you tell them. |
| [22:51:21] | &ARD | Subverting tropes and breaking rules is a great way to add tension and fear to an article — it throws the reader off, breaks their complacency, and makes the story unpredictable and therefore more intriguing. |
| [22:51:47] | &ARD | Ernest Hemingway put it best: |
| [22:51:54] | &ARD | > "A few things I have found to be true. If you leave out important things or events that you know about, the story is strengthened. If you leave or skip something because you do not know it, the story will be worthless. The test of any story is how very good the stuff that you, not your editors, omit." |
| [22:52:37] | &ARD | So what does this actually mean for you when you're describing your monster? |
| [22:53:50] | &ARD | It's pretty easy. Come up with three or four rules that govern how your monster acts and reacts. Then give your reader the chance to figure out those rules for themselves — before breaking them. |
| [22:55:09] | &ARD | One of my favorite scary monsters on the site follows this pattern really nicely: http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1155 |
| [22:55:14] | CalibriBold | I need to head out, but thank you so much for hosting, ARD! |
| [22:55:20] | &ARD | Cheers |
| [22:55:30] | &ARD | Here is, in a nutshell, how SCP-1155 works |
| [22:55:57] | &ARD | It's a living graffiti art that compels people to look at it closely, then disembowels the unfortunate victim when nobody else is looking |
| [22:56:29] | &ARD | What makes the article work is that it deliberately violates 1155's own implicit rule set and explores how the monster reacts to that violation |
| [22:57:35] | &ARD | In the first Addenda, the Foundation forces the monster to stop disemboweling a victim halfway through. In response, the monster violates its own predatory behavior, moving from the subways it prefers to the open city scape and throwing the Foundation into a tizzy |
| [22:58:25] | &ARD | And in the second, the Foundation tries to hide the monster from view. In response, the creature teleports itself to a /playground/ and starts killing, eventually returning to a mall and forcing the Foundation to effectively compromise with it. |
| [22:59:27] | &ARD | The article ends with the Foundation /willingly/ leaving it uncontained. In exchange for turning a blind eye to the urban explorers it munches on, they assume that it will stay where it is — because so far, when they violated the terms of their implicit agreement with the thing, it struck out with a vengeance |
| [23:00:49] | &ARD | We never learn where the thing came from, what's in its larder, or what the creature looks like in the larder |
| [23:01:01] | &ARD | All we know is that it likes eating people and gets very angry when you try to stop it eating people |
| [23:01:10] | &ARD | And that's exactly what makes it work |
| [23:01:24] | &ARD | Any questions? |
| [23:01:55] | Skelesky | so when you say rules |
| [23:01:58] | Skelesky | do you mean like how it works? |
| [23:02:25] | &ARD | Yes |
| [23:02:26] | Skelesky | and disrupting that? |
| [23:02:29] | &ARD | Precisely |
| [23:02:37] | %PrLosash | I have a question - how much of the rule breaking is too much? What ground rules must be in place to stop the breaking the explicit rules from being too random (seemingly)? |
| [23:02:57] | DrTARS_notabot | So with the foundation having to compromise with 1155, it creates a feelling of unease because it can still escape |
| [23:03:02] | Dyslexion | I feel like how to do the rule breaking is a seminar to its own. |
| [23:03:27] | Skelesky | how can we still create horror without rule breaking? |
| [23:04:13] | Skelesky | can we break rules without using tests by the foundation? |
| [23:04:16] | Skelesky | like an outlier |
| [23:04:40] | &ARD | DrTARS_notabot: bingo |
| [23:05:12] | — | VincentVanGone (~moc.sregor.elbac.ten.epc.733F0DA5-CRInys|criigc#moc.sregor.elbac.ten.epc.733F0DA5-CRInys|criigc) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| [23:05:15] | BlueJones | So what you're saying is that, for an scp article at least, we shouldn't write the why does it do this or where did it come from, we, as writers, should focus on the "how does it work and can we abuse the rules we put in place?", am I correct in understanding that? |
| [23:06:03] | Scourge | So one needs to create rules for their monster that are interesting to around, and that can fuel conflict/story progression? |
| [23:06:13] | &ARD | BlueJones: You CAN do that, really it provides the perfect place for you to break the rules you established. If you have the Foundation come up with a reason for WHY it does something and then its actions don't follow that hypothesis, then you've created tension |
| [23:06:18] | — | Scourge (~ten.tsewq.pslc.BB58F799-CRInys|criigc#ten.tsewq.pslc.BB58F799-CRInys|criigc) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| [23:06:40] | &ARD | PrLosash, Dyslexion — this is somewhat touch and go and is as far from a precise science as you can get. The key is understanding why you're breaking the rules and when — you're trying to effectively shake the reader out of their comfort zone. Y |
| [23:07:28] | &ARD | For example, you could have the monster break one of its rules as a stinger — make the reader ask what changed or if the monster was only pretending to follow an implicit rule |
| [23:08:01] | &ARD | Or even allude to the broken rules in the containment procedure and set up foreshadowing as the reader wonders what changed the containment procedure |
| [23:08:08] | Skelesky | so like, if the monster is y=x, but we use 15 as x and get 29 as y, that could create interest? |
| [23:08:22] | &ARD | Skelesky: in the most abstract sense, yes |
| [23:09:07] | &ARD | Scourge dipped, but their question was more or less on the money — your rules need to fuel the story/atmosphere/characters/conflict and drive them forward |
| [23:09:08] | — | Scourge (~ten.tsewq.pslc.BB58F799-CRInys|criigc#ten.tsewq.pslc.BB58F799-CRInys|criigc) has joined #workshop |
| [23:09:33] | &ARD | More importantly though, do NOT think you need to create a dozen rules that your monster should follow slavishly |
| [23:09:53] | Scourge | Apologies, I was dc'd! |
| [23:10:09] | Skelesky | what if one of the rules is a degree of chaos? |
| [23:10:14] | &ARD | Come up with just three or four basic rules that govern its behavior and play with those. Tweak them, bend them, or have it clash with human beings. They key is that your rules need to fuel the story/atmosphere/characters/conflict and drive them forward |
| [23:10:29] | &ARD | Skelesky> how can we still create horror without rule breaking? |
| [23:10:42] | &ARD | That's the focus of the next point. Let's take five minutes for bathroom breaks now |
| [23:11:39] | BlueJones | Oh thank goodness. Brb |
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| [23:17:00] | &ARD | Alright, class is back in session. Let's keep moving |
| [23:17:25] | Simartar | I missed about the last 20 mins to grab lunch - from the upscorll, the gist is rule breaking the things you set for it makes your monster more interesting? |
| [23:17:26] | DrTARS_notabot | sweet |
| [23:17:53] | Dyslexion | basically |
| [23:17:59] | &ARD | Simartar: one of the things, yes. Another useful idea is keeping those rules unsaid. |
| [23:18:12] | &ARD | The less your reader knows about HOW the monster works, the scarier it is |
| [23:19:01] | Simartar | Let their imagination do the work? |
| [23:19:06] | &ARD | Bingo |
| [23:19:11] | &ARD | So! Third point — a monster is only as scary as you care about its victims. Or, as I SHOULD have stated it — a monster becomes scarier as its victims become more relatable. |
| [23:19:22] | &ARD | You have to care about the people in danger for the monster to provide tension or fear. |
| [23:19:38] | &ARD | There are three methods I know of to accomplish this: |
| [23:20:15] | &ARD | One, making kids the victims. People automatically empathize with and are drawn to protect kids. If your monster targets kids for whatever reason, it's a whole lot scarier. |
| [23:20:36] | &ARD | Two, characterizing the victims. Having an interview log, an exploration log, a journal, a recording, whatever it is. Something to make your victims feel alive and like people that matter. |
| [23:20:50] | &ARD | Three, making your reader imagine becoming the victim themselves. This is a tough one, but the best way to go about it essentially boils down to giving the reader a lot to imagine. |
| [23:21:06] | &ARD | Now, with regards to method 3, you may be asking yourself, "but ARD, weren't you just saying that the less your reader knows about the monster the better?" |
| [23:21:16] | &ARD | Sure. But you don't need to know how the hell a Mickey Mouse costume can eat someone to know that a Mickey Mouse costume eating someone is creepy as sin. |
| [23:21:18] | &ARD | Give the reader sensory details for them to build a picture in their mind — the sound of the monster's footsteps, the stink of rotting meat it exudes, or just the way it looks like a clown on a motorcycle. |
| [23:21:26] | &ARD | If your reader can draw a detailed mental image of it, then they'll inevitably draw a mental image of it eating them. |
| [23:22:15] | &ARD | My own article, SCP-4310, relies on Method 1 exclusively. http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-4310 |
| [23:23:12] | &ARD | It's just shy of 470 words and is a bug that eats people. But it's scary because it eats kids. It hypnotizes them and tricks them into literally walking into its stomach. |
| [23:24:00] | &ARD | I touched on SCP-096 earlier, and it primarily relies on Method 2 for its horror. Dr. Dan, the D-class in the submarine, or any of the surviving MTF members are all the eyes through which we view SCP-06 |
| [23:24:03] | &ARD | *096 |
| [23:24:31] | &ARD | SCP-106 relies on Method 3. |
| [23:25:38] | &ARD | It's all about describing the monster, what it looks like, how it hunts people, and what it does to the people it hunts |
| [23:26:44] | &ARD | Need I say more about what makes 106 scary |
| [23:28:33] | &ARD | Any questions? |
| [23:28:49] | Skelesky | what about 303? |
| [23:28:55] | &ARD | scp-303 |
| [23:28:59] | Skelesky | scariest scp i've read |
| [23:29:09] | %naepicfael | the doorman |
| [23:29:12] | Skelesky | but there's no connection to the victims |
| [23:29:16] | Dyslexion | http://scp-wiki.net/scp-303 |
| [23:29:29] | &ARD | Skelesky: So what makes it scary to you? |
| [23:29:46] | Skelesky | the way it plays on a childhood fear |
| [23:29:57] | Skelesky | you hear a noise and hide under the covers |
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| [23:29:59] | Skelesky | too afraid to look up |
| [23:30:36] | &ARD | So what you're saying is that it makes you relive your own childhood fears? |
| [23:31:06] | Skelesky | yes |
| [23:31:12] | Skelesky | there's no connection to victims |
| [23:31:24] | &ARD | That sure sounds like Method 3 to me — it draws on your OWN fears and makes you imagine being victimized |
| [23:31:56] | DrTARS_notabot | What about antishasha/ 3000, that doesn't make you connect with the victoms as well, say as WDB, for lack of a not overused example |
| [23:32:32] | %naepicfael | That's a usage of both Method 2 and Method 3 |
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| [23:33:10] | Skelesky | ARD: i don't imagine myself as a victim |
| [23:33:17] | Skelesky | i just remember my old fears |
| [23:33:25] | %naepicfael | The connection lies in small amount of characterization that you get involving the researcher's gradual realization of what's happening |
| [23:33:25] | %naepicfael | as well as your own existential fear |
| [23:33:27] | Skelesky | it gives me a scary monster that is my fears |
| [23:34:19] | &ARD | Skelesky: that's still Method 3. If you are directly afraid of the monster then it's automatically taking advantage of the third method. |
| [23:34:26] | Skelesky | ah ok |
| [23:34:38] | &ARD | You care about yourself and so it frightens you |
| [23:36:07] | &ARD | SCP-3000 tries to take advantage of both Method 2 and Method 3. It tries to characterize the victims and have them explore both concrete fears such as thalassophobia or the more abstract fear of being forgotten by others so that the reader can empathize with the characters and feel those fears themselves |
| [23:36:19] | &ARD | It may not be successful at it, but that is more or less what it works to do |
| [23:37:05] | &ARD | DrTARS_notabot: Does that answer your question? |
| [23:37:17] | &ARD | The methods here aren't exclusive, you're totally free and encouraged to mix and mash them together |
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| [23:39:41] | &ARD | Well, if you've made it this far, congratulations! |
| [23:40:01] | &ARD | You could feasibly ditch the seminar right now and have the tools you need to write a decent scary monster |
| [23:40:13] | &ARD | All that's left now are tools for additional polish and fear factor |
| [23:40:44] | &ARD | Let's get to it then |
| [23:41:01] | &ARD | Fourth principle of writing scary monsters: imitation is the scariest form of flattery. |
| [23:41:07] | &ARD | This is less of a principle and more just advice on sources to draw upon when conceptualizing your monster. Folklore, literature, and nature are all fantastic sources of horror and creep to draw from. |
| [23:41:20] | &ARD | Did you know, for example, that there's a species of fungus that parasitizes insects by mind-controlling them to climb up grass and then explodes out of them to reproduce? It's a real-life Alien except it only attacks bugs. Now what if it attacked people? |
| [23:41:23] | — | elogee (~ten.tsacmoc.dm.1dsh.3F7D3BAF-CRInys|eegole#ten.tsacmoc.dm.1dsh.3F7D3BAF-CRInys|eegole) has quit (Quit: [DATA EXPUNGED]) |
| [23:41:29] | &ARD | Don't write that by the way, that's the plot of The Last Of Us |
| [23:41:37] | &ARD | Or do, I'm not your boss |
| [23:41:44] | &ARD | Take the nursery rhyme "Ring around the Rosie". Urban legend has it that the song is about the Black Plague. The myth is wrong, by the way, but it's a hell of a lot creepier to think about from that perspective. |
| [23:41:58] | &ARD | Any of you read Abandoned by Disney or A Memo to Disney Cast Members? |
| [23:42:10] | LittleFieryOne | Abandoned By Disney, yes |
| [23:42:30] | &ARD | That stuff is creepy because it twists something familiar and friendly into something that very much isn't. It's a very effective implementation of Principle 2 — subverting rules and throwing the reader out of their comfort zone |
| [23:43:31] | &ARD | I draw virtually all of my scary monsters from folklore and fiction. SCP-4975 is a particularly popular scary monster that invents its own German nursery rhyme to up the horror by implying that this thing has haunted the country for centuries |
| [23:44:06] | &ARD | Nature has had like three billion years on you to come up with creepy ways to kill things — and all of them are realistic by definition |
| [23:44:33] | &ARD | Remix the wheel, don't reinvent it |
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| [23:44:55] | ** | Mode #workshop +o elogee by ChanServ |
| [23:45:02] | &ARD | Final point of note: When you write an SCP about a scary monster you're still writing an SCP. |
| [23:45:16] | &ARD | That means that you won't be able to get away with just describing the monster and expecting it to be scary, because there's like a thousand of those already |
| [23:45:27] | &ARD | You'll have to draw upon some or all of the points of note I elaborated on upstream to give your monster depth, create tension in the story, develop an atmosphere, humanize the victims, and EARN the part of the story where your monster kills and eats people. |
| [23:45:28] | &ARD | Make it work for that meal. |
| [23:46:40] | &ARD | I love scary monsters. I think they're a great way to get introduced to the site and I think they're an even better way to acclimate yourself to the unique challenges and constraints posed by the SCP format. |
| [23:47:11] | &ARD | Murder monsters still have plenty of life in them — you just need to spend some time characterizing them. |
| [23:48:11] | &ARD | That more or less concludes the THEORY part of the seminar. For the next hour or so, I'd like to run a PRACTICAL part of the seminar. What that means is that I'm going to sit here and help anyone who wants to brainstorm and draft their own scary monster. |
| [23:48:39] | Dyslexion | ooh |
| [23:48:57] | Dyslexion | So do we pitch an idea? |
| [23:49:12] | &ARD | Yep! For the next eleven minutes, let's sit around and brainstorm ideas for scary monsters. Pitch them in the chat, pitch them in your side channels, pitch them in PMs to each other, whatever. Just don't keep it to yourself |
| [23:49:41] | &ARD | Let's get that bread |
| [23:50:48] | CrankyMonkey2 | What about a monster that analyzes a person, then decides the most horrifying way to kill them? |
| [23:50:56] | CrankyMonkey2 | Cheesy, but it just came to mind. |
| [23:51:45] | CrankyMonkey2 | Oh shit, he said pms |
| [23:51:53] | %PrLosash | What about a variation on a russian tale of Grandad Mazai - in a original tale he saved rabbits during a flood, in the SCP he can kidnap children during a flood in a rural area (under the guise of saving them). |
| [23:51:58] | Gee0666 | no he said anywhere |
| [23:52:03] | CrankyMonkey2 | oh ok |
| [23:52:51] | &ARD | PrLosash: OK! Why is he kidnapping these children? |
| [23:53:51] | Dyslexion | I've been toying with the idea of a monster that kills people based on how pure or genetically promising they would be. After a few minutes, victims get up and slowly shifts to match the original entity. It wouldn't be a casual killer, and it would be sapient, and capable of bargaining. The people would retain a lot of the same things in life, but be very different in attiude and personality. |
| [23:54:33] | %PrLosash | ARD: the easiest reason for that is, of course, sustenance. He may very well be a force of nature rather than a human or even a sapient being. |
| [23:54:33] | &ARD | Dyslexion: so a eugenics monster? |
| [23:54:42] | BlueJones | A Welsh folklore I remember reading about for a bit was about a large black dog that haunts lonely roads with "baleful breath and blazing red eyes" (the dogs welsh name is gwyllgi), could I/we turn that into a scary monster? |
| [23:54:56] | &ARD | BlueJones: the black shuck is, unfortunately, already on the site |
| [23:55:06] | &ARD | http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-023 |
| [23:55:15] | BlueJones | Awww… oh well |
| [23:55:45] | Dyslexion | Eugenics is perhaps the wrong tone. It sizes people up and decides whether to incorporate them into it's psuedo Hive mind based on how well they'd be able to contribute. |
| [23:55:55] | &ARD | PrLosash: OK. So how does he kidnap the children? |
| [23:56:15] | &ARD | Dyslexion: You didn't mention hive mind at first |
| [23:56:21] | LittleFieryOne | Gotta feed the poop monster downstairs, also known as a dog. Be right back |
| [23:56:40] | Gee0666 | LittleFieryOne: is poop monster your concept :P |
| [23:56:48] | Dyslexion | I forgot ahhh |
| [23:57:11] | Simartar | What, an entire amorphous blob of poop? |
| [23:57:28] | Gee0666 | eats poop and poops poop |
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| [23:57:57] | Skelesky | gwyllgi? |
| [23:58:10] | %PrLosash | ARD: in the original story Mazai used a small boat to rescue rabbits (hares, actually) from the coming water. That can be how this scip manifests - in a small village, during spring it always floods and if there are any children trapped by water (and there always are, because children run away into the filed to play) the scip manifests with a boat and takes children. |
| [23:58:15] | Simartar | ah so like a worm |
| [23:58:19] | %PrLosash | To what they presume is safety. |
| [23:58:27] | Scourge | I'd like to expand on a monster I've created a skeleton of. The working name for the species is the Crye, which is any spirit conjoured by a necromancer for the express purpose of teaching a lesson to a target. The Crye can posess and manipulate any suit like vessel no matter the size, usually crafted by the necromancer who has summoned the spirit. When the Crye is not in a vessel it has a loose shadowy form that seeks dark spaces and even |
| [23:58:29] | &ARD | Dyslexion: OK, so basically what you have is a hive mind that chooses new additions to its harem and then kills them so its mind can fill in the blank space? |
| [23:58:31] | DrTARS_notabot | Don't Escape 3 had a blue mineral that started to corrupt whoever it touched, and slowly turned them into a murder. Somthing allong those lines, where it is a head rescearcher is infected and documents his "turning" |
| [23:58:43] | Skelesky | is that the one who lead to the death of Gelert? |
| [23:58:57] | Gee0666 | Simartar: hides in the sewers and eats poop |
| [23:59:13] | &ARD | PrLosash: That's actually pretty good! You've got a lot to work with there — you have folklore to take inspiration of, you have the relatable Adult Fear of kidnapped children, and you've got a fairly unique means of killing people |
| [23:59:23] | Simartar | but if it poops out more poop than it eats, it'd back up the sewage system |
| [23:59:32] | &ARD | Scourge: what does that mean, "teaching a lesson to a target"? |
| [23:59:35] | Gee0666 | no it poops our equivalent poop |
| [23:59:44] | Simartar | oh so it's just like a poop recycler |
| [00:00:00] | - | {Day changed to 28 октября 2019 г.} |
| [00:00:11] | Dyslexion | ARD: yes. |
| [00:00:11] | LittleFieryOne | So it can just eat infintely |
| [00:01:14] | Scourge | The Crye are summoned as a spirit of vengance, if someone has wronged a necromancer (or if the necromancer has a grudge on them, a Crye could just be summoned arbitrarily if the necromancer sees fit) and is charged with exacting the necromancers revenge |
| [00:01:20] | %PrLosash | ARD: thanks. I googled though, and it's not a folklore tale, but a poem by an XIX century Russian poet. I wonder if that would be an issue for writing an SCP. |
| [00:01:50] | Gee0666 | PrLosash: I honestly don't see why it would be an issue |
| [00:02:13] | &ARD | PrLosash: you're fine, skips draw from popular culture all the time |
| [00:02:44] | %PrLosash | I guess it just would be explicitly called "Granddad Mazai". I wonder if russian branch done something like that. |
| [00:03:01] | &ARD | Scourge: alright, that's not a bad place to start |
| [00:06:42] | — | BooGhoulMobile23 (moc.duolccri.nevahenots.3D9C5318-CRInys|728152diu#moc.duolccri.nevahenots.3D9C5318-CRInys|728152diu) has joined #workshop |
| [00:08:13] | BlueJones | A housecleaning devil that is 1:) obligated to serve you for 24 hours and obeys every command but 2:) force it to reveal its name or 3:) make it stay on as your servent, then contract is void and the devil can do whatever it wants with you. But that's not scary, is it? |
| [00:08:31] | &ARD | Nope |
| [00:09:52] | BlueJones | Thought as much |
| [00:11:39] | DrTARS_notabot | I think mine got lost in the feed |
| [00:12:20] | &ARD | DrTARS_notabot: tbh that was mostly just a rip on a video game item |
| [00:12:43] | DrTARS_notabot | figured |
| [00:12:52] | DrTARS_notabot | first thing that came to my head |
| [00:13:11] | Simartar | Was there anything in the seminar about just coming up with the base scary monster item? |
| [00:14:14] | — | wafflebunny (~ten.tsewq.ckls.A8BFF83-CRInys|criigc#ten.tsewq.ckls.A8BFF83-CRInys|criigc) has joined #workshop |
| [00:17:57] | &ARD | Simartar: Principle 4 is probably your place to start |
| [00:18:23] | &ARD | I definitely recommend looking to folklore, fiction, or nature for inspiration — see if there's a compelling thing out there for you to skippify |
| [00:18:34] | — | Scourge (~ten.tsewq.pslc.BB58F799-CRInys|criigc#ten.tsewq.pslc.BB58F799-CRInys|criigc) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)) |
| [00:19:10] | Simartar | I see, thanks |
| [00:26:56] | — | Tasch (~ten.tsewq.ckls.A8BFF83-CRInys|criigc#ten.tsewq.ckls.A8BFF83-CRInys|criigc) has joined #workshop |
| [00:33:30] | — | wafflebunny (~ten.tsewq.ckls.A8BFF83-CRInys|criigc#ten.tsewq.ckls.A8BFF83-CRInys|criigc) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| [00:33:41] | — | LadyKatie (noom.dna.ydolem|ehtfoydal#noom.dna.ydolem|ehtfoydal) has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| [00:34:20] | DrTARS_notabot | I'm gonna head out of the workshop, thanks for hosting ARD! |
| [00:34:40] | &ARD | Cheers |
Footnotes
1. Do try to cut out as much redundancy as possible, as presenters often repeat things several times for listeners to take in fully.






Per 


